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分享一篇Walter Pall有关盆景基质、浇水施肥的文章

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发表于 2015-3-2 14:26:37 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
Walter Pall on Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:57 am

We might as well include the whole article and not just the link.

Feeding, Substrate and Watering
Methods of Walter Pall (edited by Victrinia Ridgeway)

I was asked to write a paragraph on the 'feeding of conifers'. So I sat down and came up with this. But the question, “How do you feed conifers?” when given a short answer, can lead to serious misunderstandings and to fatalities.

Substrate, watering and feeding cannot be seen as separate. Each is connected to the other and so it becomes quite complex. Be it a deciduous tree, conifer, young, old, recently potted, or even collected, there are so many variables inside a bonsai garden. Can there be a clear answer?

Well, yes. But one has to read quite carefully and then do EVERYTHING. It is not feasible to pick one that you like and ignore the others. You cannot feed according to my method and don't care what substrate you have or what your watering regime is.

First, I set aside everything that has been written in most bonsai literature about the subject. As technology grants us access to new and more effective methods and products, the way we care for our trees has progressed beyond the boundaries of tradition. It has been a new and modern world for some time, but many have not realized this. Even if some measure of success is achieved with the old methods it can be dangerous if used with modern substrates and practices, or even deadly.

Substrates: Good substrate material must: be of equal particle size, have the ability to absorb water and release it back, have no fine particle organic material, must not decompose easily, be as lightweight as possible when dry, preferably inexpensive and should have an aesthetically pleasing appearance. This would then be: lava, pumice, baked loam, Turface, zeolite, Chabasai (a type of zeolite), coconut pieces, bark pieces, Styrofoam pieces (no joke) and a few more which you can find yourself if you have understood the principles. Please note: Some of these materials may not be available in your area.

Normal akadama is questionable as a good substrate as it inevitably decomposes, especially when exposed to winter frost. It can become deadly loam in the pot, choking the flow of water and air into the soil. This is especially true for trees which are only rarely repotted, like collected conifers and old bonsai in general.

Substrates which are not useful: soil, compost, stones, sand etc. Trees grow in sand and flower soil, of course, but it is not an optimal growing medium for health in bonsai culture.
All substrates can be mixed according to your liking and it makes almost no difference. They can also be recycled and used again, but make certain to sift and clean any recycled materials as needed.

There is no such thing as an 'ideal bonsai substrate'. There are in fact thousands of ideal substrates. I believe that IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU USE AND IN WHAT MIXTURE as long as it is a modern substrate.

Since there is no soil in modern substrates there is very little alive in them. They dry out easily and one must water several times a day when it is hot, especially if you have used pure inorganics. Therefore I add rough peat in addition to the previously mentioned substrates. This is the kind of peat that is harvested in bogs and comes in its natural coarse form. Make certain not to use fine particle peat/sphagnum moss, even if the package says “dust free” as the particles will be too small. If you cannot find the correct type of peat, use small bark bits without dust particles, or cut coconut fibers. These organic components should comprise 15-20 % of the overall volume, a bit less with conifers, olives and such, and a bit more with small trees and azaleas.

These organic materials are good for keeping humidity higher in the substrate and for supporting the colonization of beneficial microbial life in the soil composition. Research also seems to indicate that peat moss has plant hormones which are good for trees. These are organic materials which would normally have no business being in a bonsai substrate, but the ones mentioned take five years to decompose. You have to consider this when planning your repotting schedules. The organic material should also be sieved out of any substrate that is being recycled.

Watering: I have a watering schedule that runs from the end of March to middle of October EVERY day. This is regardless of whether the trees appear to be dry or not. Only when it rains heavily will I refrain from watering the trees. When it is hot, or there is strong wind, or a combination of the two, I water two or even three times in a day. Very small trees must be watered twice a day. ALL trees are watered the same. Individual watering habits are not needed when all of your trees are in a consistent well draining substrate. There is also no need to carefully train a friend how to water your trees when you are away. Any person can water the trees; everything must only be watered thoroughly. It also does not matter what type of water is used. Tap water is very usable for all plants, even if it is hard water. I have some of the hardest water in Europe in my garden (23° DH). I use this water for everything, including azaleas. I water with a garden hose, full speed. I do not water individual trees, but areas, just like you might water your garden with a sprinkler system.

When you water this way, water aggressively. This means everything becomes very wet, the whole tree from top to bottom. The water must run out of the draining holes. It is very good for the trees if the crown gets wet every day.

With modern substrates over-watering is almost impossible. You can water for hours and all of the excess will just run through the pot if the correct substrate is used. It is very easy to under-water though. Many bonsai die because they are sitting in modern substrate but are watered according to the old methods - under-watered in fact.

Feeding: With modern substrates and aggressive watering, feeding is no secret anymore. ANY fertilizer that is offered for ordinary plants can be used, whether organic or chemical. Fertilizers should have LOTS of nitrogen. Only with nitrogen plants can grow.

I use mainly liquid fertilizer that I get from our cheapest general discount market. In America it would be Walmart. Use general fertilizer that is noted as being good for all plants. In addition I buy a few dozen boxes of granular fertilizers which contain chemical and some organic ingredients. Two times a year, in the beginning of May and in the end of August, I throw a handful of dried chicken manure at the trees. I buy this in large bags, which is very inexpensive. That's it. For ALL of my trees including the world famous ones I use the same fertilizer.

How much? WAY MORE THAN YOU THINK! I feed from 20 to 60 times more than the average bonsai grower. From the beginning of April to the middle of October, every ten days everything is fed with liquid fertilizer, using three to four times the suggested dose. All trees are fed equally, whether deciduous, conifers, small, large, repotted, collected or not. This is a span of about 200 days when the trees are being fed. Since the trees are fed three times the normal dose on twenty days in that time, it makes for 60 doses of fertilizer in the growing season. The average bonsai grower feeds maybe three or five times at half the normal dose because 'bonsai trees should not grow'. If you then add two times a year of chicken manure being given to the trees, you can then understand why this schedule is 20 to 60 times more than the average.

Asian fertilizer cakes are fine but superfluous in our culture. We don't eat steak with chop sticks and don't have to feed plants with cakes. But they don't hurt if you insist of using them; they are just unattractive to look at. Biogold was made to be used with modern substrates like akadama, and it works well. If you give it to me I will break it into very small particles which I then throw all over the substrate surface of the trees. After one watering it becomes invisible.

Too much salt in the substrate is almost impossible if one waters aggressively every day. Even azaleas don't mind my treatment. They thrive very well with very hard water, ordinary baked loam and peat as the substrate and aggressive feeding like all the rest of the trees.
About ten years ago 'super feeding' was proclaimed and a while later forgotten. It did not produce the expected results and many trees suffered and even died. What I do sounds similar. Well, it is similar, only that I insist on aggressive watering in parallel to aggressive feeding and the use of modern substrates. I also don't make the ingredients of fertilizing trees into a science. I tell you to buy whatever is on sale in the garden center or agricultural supply store.

This feeding scheme is for trees in development. Remember that 99.8 % of all bonsai are 'in development'. If you happen to have one that should really not develop anymore you slow down its feeding schedule considerably. You let it starve on purpose. Then it will get smaller, and fewer, leaves and needles. It will look good for shows, but your tree will go downhill if you continue to do this for too long. After a few years you have to feed it aggressively again to let it recover.

Summary: Do all three or nothing! You have no choice here. To just pick one method and refuse the others will end in disaster. Those who do 'super feeding' using old-fashioned soil, and insufficient watering will kill trees. Those who use modern substrates, aggressive watering and fertilizes like the old days will have very weak and, in the end, dead trees. That's all there is to it.

So the question, “How do you feed conifers?” gets the answer, “Like all other trees, but you have to know the whole story.”

I know that many will not believe this. ‘He who heals is right’, is a saying in human medicine. In gardening 'he who has the healthiest trees in the long run' is right. Come to see my garden or look at my gallery, they speak for themselves.

All this was not discovered or invented by me. I only learned from professional modern gardeners. They have done this for decades with great success. I have adapted modern horticulture to bonsai. Only in the bonsai world does this seem revolutionary.

发表于 2015-3-2 14:45:47 | 显示全部楼层
发表于 2015-3-2 14:47:32 | 显示全部楼层
虽看不懂,还是要谢谢楼主辛苦

点评

已经在另一篇帖子中重新作了翻译,错误之处请指正  发表于 2015-3-9 21:29
发表于 2015-3-2 15:05:43 | 显示全部楼层
我在线翻译了下,未去组织文字,连猜带蒙后意思应都没问题的
Walter Pall on Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:57 am
瓦尔特鲍尔在周四Jun 17,2010上午9:57
We might as well include the whole article and not just the link.
我们不妨把整个文章不只是链接。
Feeding, Substrate and Watering
Methods of Walter Pall (edited by Victrinia Ridgeway)
喂,基板和浇水
瓦尔特鲍尔方法(由victrinia里奇韦编辑
I was asked to write a paragraph on the 'feeding of conifers'. So I sat down and came up with this. But the question, “How do you feed conifers?” when given a short answer, can lead to serious misunderstandings and to fatalities.
我被要求在针叶树的料写一段。于是我坐下来,想出了这个。但问题是,“你怎么养活针叶树?“当有一个简短的回答,可以导致严重的误解和死亡。
Substrate, watering and feeding cannot be seen as separate. Each is connected to the other and so it becomes quite complex. Be it a deciduous tree, conifer, young, old, recently potted, or even collected, there are so many variables inside a bonsai garden. Can there be a clear answer?
基板,饮水和喂料不能被视为独立的。每个连接到其他的所以就变得很复杂。它是一种落叶乔木,针叶树,年轻的,老的,最近的盆栽,甚至收集的,有许多变数,在盆景园。有一个明确的答案?
Well, yes. But one has to read quite carefully and then do EVERYTHING. It is not feasible to pick one that you like and ignore the others. You cannot feed according to my method and don't care what substrate you have or what your watering regime is.
嗯,是的。但必须相当仔细阅读然后做一切。选择一个你喜欢并且无视他人是不可行的。你不能给按照我的方法,不在乎你或你的基板浇水制度是什么。
First, I set aside everything that has been written in most bonsai literature about the subject. As technology grants us access to new and more effective methods and products, the way we care for our trees has progressed beyond the boundaries of tradition. It has been a new and modern world for some time, but many have not realized this. Even if some measure of success is achieved with the old methods it can be dangerous if used with modern substrates and practices, or even deadly.
首先,我抛开一切已经写在大多数盆景文学主题。技术使我们获得新的和更有效的方法和产品,我们关心我们的树的方式已经超出传统的界限。它已经有一段时间的新世界,但很多人没有意识到这个。即使一些成功的措施是可以用现代的基板和做法是危险的老方法来实现的,甚至是致命的。
Substrates: Good substrate material must: be of equal particle size, have the ability to absorb water and release it back, have no fine particle organic material, must not decompose easily, be as lightweight as possible when dry, preferably inexpensive and should have an aesthetically pleasing appearance. This would then be: lava, pumice, baked loam, Turface, zeolite, Chabasai (a type of zeolite), coconut pieces, bark pieces, Styrofoam pieces (no joke) and a few more which you can find yourself if you have understood the principles. Please note: Some of these materials may not be available in your area.
基材:好的基材必须是相同的颗粒尺寸,具有吸收水分和释放它的能力,没有细颗粒有机物,不易分解,干燥时尽可能轻,最好是便宜的,应该有一个美观的。这将是:熔岩,浮石,烤粘土,蒙脱石,沸石,chabasai(A型沸石),椰子片,皮片,塑料片(不是开玩笑)和一些你可以如果你理解了原理发现自己。请注意:有些材料可能无法在您所在地区提供。
Normal akadama is questionable as a good substrate as it inevitably decomposes, especially when exposed to winter frost. It can become deadly loam in the pot, choking the flow of water and air into the soil. This is especially true for trees which are only rarely repotted, like collected conifers and old bonsai in general.
正常的红玉是值得商榷的是一个很好的基板不可避免地分解,尤其是当暴露在冬霜。它可以成为致命的壤土盆栽,令人窒息的空气和水进入土壤的流动。这其中只有很少移植树木是真实的,喜欢收集老盆景一般针叶树。
Substrates which are not useful: soil, compost, stones, sand etc. Trees grow in sand and flower soil, of course, but it is not an optimal growing medium for health in bonsai culture.
All substrates can be mixed according to your liking and it makes almost no difference. They can also be recycled and used again, but make certain to sift and clean any recycled materials as needed.
基板是没有用的:土壤,堆肥,石头,沙子等树生长在沙和花土,当然,但它不是一个最佳的生长介质的健康盆景文化。
底物可以混合根据自己的喜好使几乎没有区别。他们也可以回收再利用,但一定要整理和清洁任何再生材料的需要。
There is no such thing as an 'ideal bonsai substrate'. There are in fact thousands of ideal substrates. I believe that IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU USE AND IN WHAT MIXTURE as long as it is a modern substrate.
没有找到的东西作为一个“理想的盆栽基质。事实上,有成千上万的理想衬底。我相信你不知道它的使用和混合是只要它是一个现代的基板。
Since there is no soil in modern substrates there is very little alive in them. They dry out easily and one must water several times a day when it is hot, especially if you have used pure inorganics. Therefore I add rough peat in addition to the previously mentioned substrates. This is the kind of peat that is harvested in bogs and comes in its natural coarse form. Make certain not to use fine particle peat/sphagnum moss, even if the package says “dust free” as the particles will be too small. If you cannot find the correct type of peat, use small bark bits without dust particles, or cut coconut fibers. These organic components should comprise 15-20 % of the overall volume, a bit less with conifers, olives and such, and a bit more with small trees and azaleas.
由于没有土壤在现代上很少有活着的人。他们容易干燥,要水一天几次当它是热的,特别是如果你有使用纯无机物。因此我添加粗泥炭除了前面提到的基。这是泥炭沼泽和收获是自然形成的一种粗。一定不要使用细颗粒的泥炭、泥炭藓,即使包说“无尘”作为颗粒太小。如果你不能找到正确的类型的泥炭,用小皮位无粉尘颗粒,或切椰子纤维。这些有机成分应包括15-20%的总体积,有松柏的少一点,橄榄之类的,和更多的小树木和杜鹃花。
These organic materials are good for keeping humidity higher in the substrate and for supporting the colonization of beneficial microbial life in the soil composition. Research also seems to indicate that peat moss has plant hormones which are good for trees. These are organic materials which would normally have no business being in a bonsai substrate, but the ones mentioned take five years to decompose. You have to consider this when planning your repotting schedules. The organic material should also be sieved out of any substrate that is being recycled.
论文研究的有机材料是好的保鲜湿度高等在衬底的支持和有益的微生物生活在殖民学院土组成。因此,研究表明,泥炭藓,安切洛蒂似乎是植物激素是好的树。这些都是有机材料,这将是在业务的通常没有底物A盆景,但一提到到decompose需要五年。当你考虑这个计划的移植计划。在有机材料的sieved应该不出任何衬底被回收。
Watering: I have a watering schedule that runs from the end of March to middle of October EVERY day. This is regardless of whether the trees appear to be dry or not. Only when it rains heavily will I refrain from watering the trees. When it is hot, or there is strong wind, or a combination of the two, I water two or even three times in a day. Very small trees must be watered twice a day. ALL trees are watered the same. Individual watering habits are not needed when all of your trees are in a consistent well draining substrate. There is also no need to carefully train a friend how to water your trees when you are away. Any person can water the trees; everything must only be watered thoroughly. It also does not matter what type of water is used. Tap water is very usable for all plants, even if it is hard water. I have some of the hardest water in Europe in my garden (23° DH). I use this water for everything, including azaleas. I water with a garden hose, full speed. I do not water individual trees, but areas, just like you might water your garden with a sprinkler system.
浇水:我有一个浇水的时间表,从3月底到十月中运行的每一天。这是无论树木似乎是干的或不。只有当天下大雨,我会避免给树浇水。当它是热的,或有强烈的风,或两者的组合,我的水两次甚至三次。很小的树木必须浇水,一天两次。所有的树木都浇水一样。当你所有的树木都在一个一致的排水良好的基质不需要个人浇水习惯。也不需要精心培养朋友如何水的树,当你走了。任何人都可以浇树;一切都必须浇透。那也无所谓什么类型的水是用。自来水是非常有用的为所有的植物,即使是硬水。我有一些最难的水在欧洲在我的花园里(23°DH)。我用这个水的一切,包括杜鹃花。我的水用软管,全速。我不水的个别树木,但地区,就像你可能会与你的花园水喷淋系统。
When you water this way, water aggressively. This means everything becomes very wet, the whole tree from top to bottom. The water must run out of the draining holes. It is very good for the trees if the crown gets wet every day.
当你的水份,水性。这意味着一切都变得很湿,从上到下整棵树。水要用完的排水孔。如果冠弄湿每天都是很好的树。
With modern substrates over-watering is almost impossible. You can water for hours and all of the excess will just run through the pot if the correct substrate is used. It is very easy to under-water though. Many bonsai die because they are sitting in modern substrate but are watered according to the old methods - under-watered in fact.
随着现代基质过度浇水几乎是不可能的。你可以水小时所有过量会贯穿壶如果正确的基板用。这是很容易在水下虽然。许多盆景的死是因为他们坐在现代基底但浇水在浇水,事实上老方法。
Feeding: With modern substrates and aggressive watering, feeding is no secret anymore. ANY fertilizer that is offered for ordinary plants can be used, whether organic or chemical. Fertilizers should have LOTS of nitrogen. Only with nitrogen plants can grow.
料:与现代的底物和积极的浇水,喂养是没有秘密了。任何肥料,是普通的植物提供可以使用的,无论是有机或化学。应该有很多的氮肥料。只有氮植物能够生长。
I use mainly liquid fertilizer that I get from our cheapest general discount market. In America it would be Walmart. Use general fertilizer that is noted as being good for all plants. In addition I buy a few dozen boxes of granular fertilizers which contain chemical and some organic ingredients. Two times a year, in the beginning of May and in the end of August, I throw a handful of dried chicken manure at the trees. I buy this in large bags, which is very inexpensive. That's it. For ALL of my trees including the world famous ones I use the same fertilizer.
我使用的是液体肥料是从我们的工作人员给了我一般贴现市场。这将是沃尔玛在美国。使用一般肥料的人说是好的所有的植物。此外,我买几盒(含颗粒肥料,这都和一些有机化工原料。在第二年的时代的开始,5月结束,在8月,我院handful投掷粪便干鸡在树上。我买一大袋中,这是非常昂贵的。那是它。所有的树,包括世界著名的我。我使用的肥料。
How much? WAY MORE THAN YOU THINK! I feed from 20 to 60 times more than the average bonsai grower. From the beginning of April to the middle of October, every ten days everything is fed with liquid fertilizer, using three to four times the suggested dose. All trees are fed equally, whether deciduous, conifers, small, large, repotted, collected or not. This is a span of about 200 days when the trees are being fed. Since the trees are fed three times the normal dose on twenty days in that time, it makes for 60 doses of fertilizer in the growing season. The average bonsai grower feeds maybe three or five times at half the normal dose because 'bonsai trees should not grow'. If you then add two times a year of chicken manure being given to the trees, you can then understand why this schedule is 20 to 60 times more than the average.
多少钱?方法比你想象的要多!我的饲料从20到比一般盆景种植者的60倍。从四月开始到十月中旬,每十天都是喂食液体肥,用三的建议剂量的四倍。所有的树都是美联储同样,无论是落叶,针叶林,小,大,移植,收集或不。这是一个跨度大约200天的时候,树木被馈。因为树木是美联储的正常剂量的三倍在二十天时间,这使得在生长季节的60个剂量的肥料。一般的盆景种植饲料可能是三或五倍正常剂量的一半因为“盆景树不能生长的。如果你再加一年的鸡粪给树两次,然后你可以理解为什么这个计划是高于平均值的20到60倍。
Asian fertilizer cakes are fine but superfluous in our culture. We don't eat steak with chop sticks and don't have to feed plants with cakes. But they don't hurt if you insist of using them; they are just unattractive to look at. Biogold was made to be used with modern substrates like akadama, and it works well. If you give it to me I will break it into very small particles which I then throw all over the substrate surface of the trees. After one watering it becomes invisible.
亚洲肥蛋糕在我们的文化是好的但多余。我们不吃用筷子吃牛排和没有蛋糕饲料厂。但他们不如果你坚持用他们伤害;他们只看不。biogold是用现代的基材如红玉,和它的作品很好。如果你给我我就成很小的粒子,然后我把所有的树在衬底表面。一个看不见后浇水。
Too much salt in the substrate is almost impossible if one waters aggressively every day. Even azaleas don't mind my treatment. They thrive very well with very hard water, ordinary baked loam and peat as the substrate and aggressive feeding like all the rest of the trees.
太多的盐底物几乎是不可能的,如果在一活动水域的每一天。甚至不要介意我的杜鹃花的治疗。他们很硬很茂盛与水,普通烤壤土和泥炭as the底物和积极喂养所有的树木的休息。
About ten years ago 'super feeding' was proclaimed and a while later forgotten. It did not produce the expected results and many trees suffered and even died. What I do sounds similar. Well, it is similar, only that I insist on aggressive watering in parallel to aggressive feeding and the use of modern substrates. I also don't make the ingredients of fertilizing trees into a science. I tell you to buy whatever is on sale in the garden center or agricultural supply store.
大约十年前,“超喂”宣告成立,而后来忘了。它并没有产生预期的结果,许多树木遭受甚至死。我所做的类似的声音。嗯,这是类似的,只是我坚持在并行攻击攻击喂养和浇水现代基板使用。我也不要施肥树木变成了科学的成分。我告诉你买什么是销售在花园中心或农产品供应店。
This feeding scheme is for trees in development. Remember that 99.8 % of all bonsai are 'in development'. If you happen to have one that should really not develop anymore you slow down its feeding schedule considerably. You let it starve on purpose. Then it will get smaller, and fewer, leaves and needles. It will look good for shows, but your tree will go downhill if you continue to do this for too long. After a few years you have to feed it aggressively again to let it recover.
这是树的喂养方案开发。记住,所有盆景99.8%是“发展”。如果你碰巧有一个真的不应该发展了你放慢进食相当。你让它挨饿的目的。然后,它将变得越来越小,越来越少,叶子和针。它能很好的显示,但是你的树如果你继续太久这样走下坡路。几年后,你喂它积极地再让它恢复
Summary: Do all three or nothing! You have no choice here. To just pick one method and refuse the others will end in disaster. Those who do 'super feeding' using old-fashioned soil, and insufficient watering will kill trees. Those who use modern substrates, aggressive watering and fertilizes like the old days will have very weak and, in the end, dead trees. That's all there is to it.
总结:做三或无!你没有选择。只选择一个方法和拒绝别人会以灾难结束。那些“超级料使用老式的土,浇水不足会杀死树木。那些使用现代的基板,积极浇水和施肥像以前一样会很弱,最后,死树。这是。
So the question, “How do you feed conifers?” gets the answer, “Like all other trees, but you have to know the whole story.”
这样的问题,“你怎么养活针叶树?”得到的回答,“像所有其他的树,但你要知道整个故事了。”
I know that many will not believe this. ‘He who heals is right’, is a saying in human medicine. In gardening 'he who has the healthiest trees in the long run' is right. Come to see my garden or look at my gallery, they speak for themselves.
我知道很多人不相信这个。“他医治是正确的,是人类医学的说。园艺的他在长期的谁有健康的树是正确的。来看看我的花园或看看我的画廊,他们为自己说话。
All this was not discovered or invented by me. I only learned from professional modern gardeners. They have done this for decades with great success. I have adapted modern horticulture to bonsai. Only in the bonsai world does this seem revolutionary.
这一切都不被发现或发明的我。我从专业的现代园艺学。他们这样做的非常成功,几十年。我已经适应了现代园艺盆景。只有在盆景世界这好像是革命。

点评

在另外一个帖子中我做了翻译  发表于 2015-3-6 01:13
 楼主| 发表于 2015-3-2 15:08:18 | 显示全部楼层
昔园 发表于 2015-3-2 15:05
我在线翻译了下,未去组织文字,连猜带蒙后意思应都没问题的
Walter Pall on Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:57 a ...

不好意思,我还没来得及翻译和整理就发上来了,谢谢你的翻译
发表于 2015-3-2 15:27:20 | 显示全部楼层
发表于 2015-3-2 15:51:20 | 显示全部楼层
我看真正辛苦的是昔园

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昔园是个好同志  发表于 2015-3-9 21:30
发表于 2015-3-2 16:43:26 | 显示全部楼层
谢谢1 、2、楼
发表于 2015-3-2 17:15:52 | 显示全部楼层
xx谢谢学习
发表于 2015-3-2 18:46:46 | 显示全部楼层
发表于 2015-3-2 20:09:06 | 显示全部楼层
发表于 2015-3-2 20:34:42 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 木驹子 于 2015-3-2 20:37 编辑

两位辛苦了,论坛因为有你们而无限精彩!

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谢谢鼓励  发表于 2015-3-9 21:30
发表于 2015-3-3 14:54:14 | 显示全部楼层
发表于 2015-3-4 18:42:18 | 显示全部楼层
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